Wikipedia talk:Discord

Unban request

We're not going to argue with you. Try in six months with a record of community involvement or move on. -- ferret (talk) 13:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

My dc username is young_robert. I made a joke which was not taken well, i didn't mean any harm and was just trying to be funny. i'm sorry and please unban me — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rovi9805 (talk • contribs) 21:22, 5 April 2024 (UTC) Declined. We have no space for people who make nazi jokes. -- ferret (talk) 21:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC) i really didn't mean it like that, i have been reading about biological warfare and kurt blome was on my mind. i apologize, and was only joking Rovi9805 (talk) 03:32, 6 April 2024 (UTC) Will this be permanent or is it timed? I only want to read and contriubte in the biology projects in discord Rovi9805 (talk) 17:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Bans are permanent. You can try to appeal again in six months with a solid track record of editing. There is little reason for us to unban someone who makes nazi jokes who isn't even editing. -- ferret (talk) 17:59, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Why do you keep saying "nazi jokes"? You're trying to make it sound worse than it is Rovi9805 (talk) 20:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC) You make a joking reference to Kurt Blome. Per our article, "Kurt Blome (31 January 1894 – 10 October 1969) was a high-ranking Nazi scientist" who "participated in chemical and biological warfare experiments on concentration camp inmates". It's not ferret making you look bad here. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 21:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Specifically saying "jokes" making it sound like there were multiple instances. The funny thing is that I read about him as a MKUltra (USA) scientist and didn't intend any Nazi association, but here I am permanently banned for "we have no space for people who make nazi jokes" Rovi9805 (talk) 22:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC) The fact that you keep trying to argue that this wasn't that bad is not helping you any, especially given that you're not even really an active editor (5 of your 12 edits are to this page). If I were you, I would take ferret's incredibly lenient suggestion above that you can re-appeal in six months with an actual track record of edits. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC) Why should I have to be an avid editor to connect with other people who share my passion of biology Wikipedia? Rovi9805 (talk) 03:22, 23 April 2024 (UTC) If you cannot accept our conditions, please don't bother replying or appealing further. The server exists to further collaboration between editors, not to use the offtopic channel to ask about Turing awards and make a nazi joke. -- ferret (talk) 03:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC) Are the conditions "You can try to appeal again in six months with a solid track record of editing" offered to all banned Discord members, or is it an offer exclusive for "Rovi9805"? -- Sleyece (talk) 03:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC) The condition for you is that you commit to not behaving in the manner that got you banned in the first place: arguing, wikilawyering, declaring you know better than the mods who wrote the server policies, and generally exhausting the patience of everyone in the server. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC) Yes, of course I commit to it. I did not fully understand the WP:LAWYER policy prior to April 7, and ferret has personally aided in my better understanding of it in the ensuing days. I've stricken much of my last statement from April 7 on this page for context. -- Sleyece (talk) 08:21, 24 April 2024 (UTC) just a question, is a perma IP ban with 6 month appeal for MKultra joke/asking about the turing award documented anywhere or did you guys just make that up special for me? Rovi9805 (talk) 04:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

shortcut?

I expected WP:DISCORD to link to a policy/guideline page or consensus-discussion about the reliability of, the linking to, or the citing of, Discord. Can anybody point me to that which I'm actually looking for? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 15:42, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

@Fourthords Discord is a purely WP:USERG platform so by definition anything on it is unreliable. That said, and someone else will have to find it for me, there is an RfC on the VP that resulted in the linking of Discord messages being viewed as an OUTING issue and should not be done. -- ferret (talk) 15:52, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 169#Discord logs, I think, for the outing RFC. –Novem Linguae (talk) 18:54, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

WP:USERG is complicated by WP:ABOUTSELF, though, which says they "may be used as sources of information about themselves, usually in articles about themselves or their activities, without the self-published source requirement that they are established experts in the field". That section specifically calls out Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Tumblr, and Twitter as acceptable. Discord, though, is a sort of private chat room, and lacks the access and transparency (and more) of those other services, and we thereby cannot know that any given self-publisher is actually who's being identified. Is there any consensus (codified or not) that contends with these issues? — Fourthords | =Λ= | 16:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

As you said, Discord lacks a real system of user verification, so I would think it would be extremely difficult to properly use it as a primary source. I am thinking you'll want to move this to WP:RSN or some similar area for more opinions. -- ferret (talk) 16:46, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Definitely where I'm going next; I just came here thinking surely it'd been addressed before. Cheers, all. — Fourthords | =Λ= | 20:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Facebook, LinkedIn, Reddit, Tumblr, and Twitter don't have a real system of user verification either, and even if they did, why would we trust it? The principle we apply to those other platforms is that if @JohnSmith is widely believed to be John Smith, we can take that as a given.

My immediate reaction is that citing Discord would be absurd, but thinking about it, I can't see any meaningful difference between it and other social media platforms that we allow under WP:SOCIALMEDIA. Discord chat rooms are, unless configured otherwise, public (which is why the outing RfC was always completely absurd, but I digress) and such constitute (self-) published information. You have to set up an account and accept their Terms of Service to see the information, but that is also true of Facebook, JSTOR, your local university library, and many other perfectly acceptable sources. Difficulty of access is not something that disqualifies something as a source either; again see Facebook, JSTOR, your local university library... Discord can't possibly be a good source—if you can only source something to there, is it really WP:DUE?—but technically it is permissable under the existing guidelines at WP:SOCIALMEDIA. – Joe (talk) 08:57, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

@Joe Roe I could see a few rare cases where a developer or personality might use their own 'official' Discord server for communication, but I would think in most of those cases we could find a better social media if the news/info is actually DUE as well. -- ferret (talk) 19:49, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Appeal

My username on Discord is the same as my Wikipedia handle, and wish for someone to reach out so as to come to an understanding for what happened leading up to my ban. Akaibu (talk) 02:36, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

I am willing to discuss, but you have made less than 20 edits since your ban in February, so unless there are extenuating circumstances, we are unlikely to unban right now. I have sent you a friend request to enable me to DM you. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 05:22, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Unable to Join!

Hey, my Discord ID is "wiki_grabup." I joined the Discord server, but now I can't see it on my app, and I'm unable to rejoin the server. Could you please tell me what went wrong? GrabUp - Talk 12:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

@Grabup You were banned. This relates to the issues surrounding your current partial blocks, as you came into the server to further that same conflict through friend requests and direct messages to multiple people. -- ferret (talk) 20:21, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I just messaged Josh to apologize and make things better. I explained to him why I suddenly started doing this. My intention was not to bother him at all. I didn't message anyone else, just sent friend requests to 3 others whom I know. Anyways I respect the ban. GrabUp - Talk 03:27, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 10 June 2024

Wikipedia:Discord → Wikipedia:Wikimedia Community Discord – Almost all of this page concerns a single Discord server, referred to as the 'Wikimedia Community Discord'. But #Other servers lists at least ten other servers specifically targetting the English Wikipedia plus many more within the wider Wikimedia movement. All of these are community-organised and it doesn't seem like any of them is more 'official' than the others. So why is WCD singled out for special treatment here? I suggest we move this page to Wikipedia:Wikimedia Community Discord and turn Wikipedia:Discord into either a disambiguation or information page listing all the existing servers. – Joe (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Joe, do you believe there is any confusion here? "WCD" as you put it is the primary English Wikipedia server. This really isn't in question, I don't think. None of the other servers listed here deal with English Wikipedia in a broad and general sense, but they are clearly denoted all the same. -- ferret (talk) 14:24, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

In what sense is it "primary"? – Joe (talk) 14:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

In that there is no other community server that deals with English Wikipedia and its various WikiProjects in general. This is the oldest and larger (by far) server. All other servers are for various tools or subject specific areas. -- ferret (talk) 14:39, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Don't you think the fact that it's been preferentially advertised on-wiki might have a role in that? Readers of this page have to scroll past a big blue join button, a how-to guide, and full lists of rules, channels, bots, groups, moderators, and userboxes for your server before there's even an acknowledgement that others exist. As I understand it, anyone can create a Discord server quite easily, so supporting individual groups of Wikipedians to create them for their specific areas of interest seems much more in keeping with how we usually do things (you already mentioned WikiProjects, which have the same model). Instead, this page gives undue prominence to one alternative of many, controlled by just two people (one being you). – Joe (talk) 15:01, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'm confident that actually being embedded in community pages, by the community at large, has been a component of its growth. That does not change the fact that it is the only community server with a direct focus on English Wikipedia in general. No one has arrived at WP:Discord and thought, "Darn, I was expecting to see this was for WikiLoop DoubleCheck, but instead its focused on a server for English Wikipedia."

As for the administrative control of the server, this is a condition of any such platform, no different than IRC with its limited group contacts. I'm more than open to feedback if you feel my stewardship of the server is lacking or somehow harmful.

If you are concerned that other narrow-focused servers do not have enough visibility, we can also move them higher in the page. But I truly do not believe anyone is being misled or confused by the current arrangement. -- ferret (talk) 15:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

You rewrote some of your statement as I replied. The above was written in response to Special:Diff/1228311404. I've not edited it in response to your edits. -- ferret (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm not saying that anyone has been confused or misled. The rationale for this proposed move is that this page gives undue prominence to your server. Mentioning the alternatives earlier would address part of that problem, but not do anything about the massive disparity in textual weight (i.e. 1400 words for WCD; one list entry each for the other ten). Moving this page and creating a disambiguation page or index in its place would solve the whole problem. I imagine you could still be first on the list, if that's what's worrying you. – Joe (talk) 15:33, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

I would call it a WP:DUEWEIGHT issue. If one thing is demonstrably the primary server in user numbers and overall coverage why wouldn't it be the primary topic listed here? Is your thought that if the page was moved and the list adjusted that the Ultraviolet server would all of a sudden see a huge influx of people? Or that this is somehow siphoning people away from these other servers? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 15:37, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Since this is not an article, I see the issue as analogous to but not quite the same as a WP:DUEWEIGHT one: it's more a question of fairness in how we describe external services. I don't use any of these servers and don't care how many users they have now or in future. However, pages in the project namespace shouldn't be used to promote one competing service over another. – Joe (talk) 15:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

PEPSI is an essay, that you wrote no less than 8 months ago, but that aside, we (a general we of the whole community) aren't promoting one competing service over another here. There is one primary general-interest community server at this time, and several (listed) satellite servers for various focused interests. PEPSI also doesn't advise to remove such mentions (which you did earlier), but to simply provides guidance to ensure alternatives are listed where possible... which they are. -- ferret (talk) 15:58, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes I know, I'm not old enough to forget things I did eight months ago. I'm linking it here so I don't have to write out the reasoning again. That's what essays are for.

This page is quite clearly promoting one service (the Wikimedia Community Discord) over others (however many other Wikipedia-related Discord servers are out there) and I don't understand how you possibly claim otherwise. The alternatives are listed, yes... at the very end, after a full page about your server. That might seem fair to you, but maybe let's hear from someone who isn't also one of the main beneficiaries of that promotion, eh? – Joe (talk) 16:09, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Joe, sincerely, do you really believe I see this as a "my server" issue? I happen to sit in the technical-required ownership spot (and wasn't the first). I take that role seriously though, is all. If the community demands I hand it to another, I will. Is there anything enforcing that beyond my word? No, but I'm a sysop and checkuser in good standing, so I hope that holds some degree of trust. Please temper suggestions I might be arguing from a place of self-interest. -- ferret (talk) 16:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose. The "WCD" server is clearly the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Like the similar page Wikipedia:IRC, which is not named Wikipedia:Wikimedia on Libera Chat, folks who link to WP:DISCORD intend it to link to this server and not a disambiguation page. –Novem Linguae (talk) 17:07, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

There's also a discussion at Template talk:Header navbar community that could use some more eyes. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:13, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose Registering my personal oppose per arguments made above. As already denoted but for full disclosure, I operate the server. -- ferret (talk) 17:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose, I like the bike shed the color it is. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
• oppose: ferret says it best ... sawyer * he/they * talk 18:32, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
• I helped to start one of the "other servers" and don't see a problem with the current setup. There's one big multipurpse server applicable to enwiki broadly and a bunch of more specific servers dedicated to specific projects, affiliates, or sub-communities. I don't see a problem with the former being the first one people encounter. In fact, if someone is looking for a general purpose English Wikipedia Discord server, they shouldn't find the e.g. WikiNYC or Ultraviolet server at the top of the list. They're not in competition -- they serve other purposes. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 18:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
• Nope, however perhaps a top note that this project page is primarily about the Wikimedia Community Discord, and link down that #other_servers exist. — xaosflux ^Talk 18:59, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

  Maybe a {{nutshell}}. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

  I started to do this but decided to let this discussion go first. It has my support for what that is worth. -- ferret (talk) 19:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

• (talk page watcher) Oppose, as someone who owns and moderates, respectively, two servers in the "Other servers" list. Besides what Rhodo and Ferret have already said, to call other servers a "competing service" is a bit incorrect — being a member of "WCD" is not mutually exclusive with being a member of the other servers. The "server" terminology isn't even accurate; different "servers" are not on different "servers". Discord users can join multiple Wikimedia-related servers as long as it suits their interest, and leave whichever ones they no longer want to be in; all of this with relative ease. Chlod (say hi!) 19:12, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose per Novem and SFR. Waste of time with zero benefit. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 20:24, 10 June 2024 (UTC)